Steve Howard
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European Champions LeagueWell done Man U  ... now that you have one foot in the final I hope that Chelsea can do likewise tomorrow night.... I won't be holding my breath though, I expect a tight game, could be wrong, but we'll see!
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Mac
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That was the quarter final Steve 
See Mr Ronaldo was at his finest.........diving at every oppurtunity again 
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PeteB
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Ok then... supporter of the worst team EVER in the Premiership.... tell me of a better goal than Ronaldo's tonight.... 
While you are at it... congratulate yourselves on the millions you have earnt in the premier league and the millions you get on relegation... 
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Steve Howard
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| Mac wrote: | That was the quarter final Steve
See Mr Ronaldo was at his finest.........diving at every oppurtunity again |
I know Mac, but I don't think that Barca have a team capable of stopping them... they are really poor this year m8.
Yup, thankfully the diving cheat didn't prosper with a penalty though, at least his goal was an 'earned' one, and not a 'given' one... this time!
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Mac
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| PeteB wrote: | Ok then... supporter of the worst team EVER in the Premiership.... tell me of a better goal than Ronaldo's tonight....
While you are at it... congratulate yourselves on the millions you have earnt in the premier league and the millions you get on relegation... |
We aren't the worst team EVER..........yet. 5 points and we won't be either, Reading and Arsenal at home, there's an easy 6 points
As for the money Pete, totally agree, and assuming Paul Jewell is given quite a bit of it to strengthen the squad I can see us coming straight back up (but not with the present squad)
As for Ronaldos goal, it was a good one that's for sure, he was brave to go in where he did. Let me ask you this, does it not annoy you that Man Utd have (debateably) the best player in the world, he scoring goals for fun and yet at times resorts to diving.
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PeteB
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"I can see us coming straight back up "
Then swan diving straight back down again.....  Face it Mac, Derby are just not premiership material.... 
Ronaldo doesn't dive, there are just awkward breezes that swirl around the penalty area when he's in there.... 
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Mac
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[quote="PeteB"]"I Face it Mac, Derby are just not premiership material....
quote]
To a certain extent Pete I agree, I think The Rams are going to get 48 million for this 1 season in The Prem which to a club like ours is superb. We are a yo yo club much like Sunderland, Fulham, Birmingham, West Brom to name a few. A Premiership club needs millions of wonga every season to survive the Premiership, maybe we could get a nice Russian to invest in our club then we'll go and buy the league
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Steve Howard
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How droll... how about some nice yanks mac? I hear there might be one or two loaded yanks around:wink:
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jimbob
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Reading fan here.
Mac thats the last thing you want(unless you are in serious money troubles).foreign investers coming in just want the money they dont care about the club.i dont think gillett and hicks for liverpool they just want to make some quick bucks same with malcolm glazer.john madjeski for reading ok we have been successful and got us a stadium but coppell did the hard work tbh he hasnt gave coppell any money for players he doesnt really support reading like a chairman in my view should.although there poor newcastle have got an extremely good chairman in mike ashley but he just needs to stop chopping and changing managers.
if you can keep hold of miller you should be ok and come back up.in the championship teams with a out-and-out striker will fair ok.he aint premiership quality but in championship will bang them in every saturday for the rams!
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Mac
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Yeah we have some American investors, they (as all investors say) say they are here for the long haul and to help us get back to "where we belong"
We have PREMIERSHIP facilities, Pride Park plus a state of the art training ground/facilities
We have a superb fan base, over 30,000 for every league game this season plus take an average 2500 to away games.
But as we all know, money is an absolute must to be playing alongside the big boys. Not just to buy the players but to also pay them (extortionate wages) So unless a team has a local multi millionaire then its abroad they look to. :?
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jimbob
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I think even if derby did have there money to pay the prices and wages for very good players they couldnt attract them same reason reading,birmingham,sunderland,fulham,wigan.theyve got no history and aint desirable clubs.i dont think anyone except for liverpool,chelsea,united,arsenal will ever finish in the top 3 for at least 10 years.even if 1 slips there will always be 3 strongs teams.then you got your everton,blackburn,portsmouth,man city,tottenham they have a couple good players and maybe a good manager but can only sustain the pace up till november then there quality depth shows.
anyway if your not in the top four your just a feeder club.
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richchappy
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i still think it would be much more interesting if you were only alowd local players within a 40 mile radius of the club say, no forigners etc
make it so the money has much less impact, and the scouts etc have the chance to find local talent
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Mac
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| jimbob wrote: | | .theyve got no history and aint desirable clubs. |
Jimbob, I suggest you have a look at the 12 founder members of the football league
Brian Clough,the (debatebly) best manager ever won his 1st league championship at Derby, then went onto a certain other team 
Plenty of history mate, but if it ain't in the last 15 yrs like some teams its forgot
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JAFFA
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| Mac wrote: | | jimbob wrote: | | .theyve got no history and aint desirable clubs. |
Jimbob, I suggest you have a look at the 12 founder members of the football league
Brian Clough,the (debatebly) best manager ever won his 1st league championship at Derby, then went onto a certain other team
Plenty of history mate, but if it ain't in the last 15 yrs like some teams its forgot |
Would that be Nottingham Forest Mac, who went on the win "back to back" European Cups. Still a record for British football I beleive.
kind regards Jeff
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Mac
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No need for language like that Jeff
On open forum too  Just to mention th N word is a slappable offence
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dime
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The turks made arseinell look like a sunday team....opps forgot,.....they are a sunday team!!!!
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jimbob
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brian clough although i werent around in his reign i know what a great man he was.mac ,players will never be attracked to teams like derby or reading.they want teams that win trophy's and cups and have a great european history and have a histiory of that mate.winning the league in 1975 isnt enough to entice top players
btw reading have history they won the simod cup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Steve Howard
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I make you right there Jimbob...
Money talks, no doubt. History only whispers.
But, let's use Pompey as an example - they are a club that have a little of both, history and now money, and who have often been referred to as a 'sleeping giant'
Even then, it has taken an extremely good manager with a reputation for getting the best out of players, and a very keen eye for discarded talent to hoist them back into a more respectable position than they have been for a very long time. Thankfully for Pompey, Harry is widely respected by players, and he sells the club to them well... his ambition is recognised by players, even if he is seemingly not appreciated by the top clubs.
It's a combination of factors that are needed for success, and money alone cannot bring that.
As you say, even though a club like Pompey, enjoying a small run of modest success, cannot hope to sign top players... Even with Harry at the helm... mainly because the top players see the likes of Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal or Pool as the teams to join for short term success.
Cups and titles are the main target for ambitious/top players, and when joining the big four they are almost certainly going to win one or two of these within a three year period, and within the time of their contract...
I doubt if any of the current Pompey players dreamed that they could win anything within their contract periods when they signed, but they now find themselves in a position this year where its possible, with the FA cup... but who among us believed that none of the top four would be in the mix right now!? Surely none of the Pompey players, or even Harry did?
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jimbob
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spot on steve,but mac was right about history in the last 15 years because thats what top players will look at.
but as soon as pompey gets some injuries like defoe,johnson,campell,james they will fall apart.harry is a good manager but i dont think he is very loyal.he is always hopping between the better of pompey and southampton and when newcastle where sniffing around he was tempted.i think west brom might win the cup due to there strikers they have lots of goals in them.
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Steve Howard
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I'm not convinced about the '15 years' bit, Jimbob, more like 5 years, and more than just one or two trophies m8!
Look at the teams just outside of the big four... they don't often secure the signatures of the very top, elite players, do they? - and even if they do, they can't hold onto them for long!
Teams like Pompey have got where they are by using proven, but discarded players.. Defoe, Campbell, James, Johnson... all England players...
In the not-so-distant past, and to help their cause, they've had people like Teddy Sheringham and Paul Merson et al... All of whom were seen to have been past it or failed at the very top.
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Steve Howard
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I'm not convinced about the '15 years' bit, Jimbob, more like 5 years, and more than just one or two trophies m8!
Look at the teams just outside of the big four... they don't often secure the signatures of the very top, elite players, do they? - and even if they do, they can't hold onto them for long!
Teams like Pompey have got where they are by using proven, but discarded players.. Defoe, Campbell, James, Johnson... all England players...
In the not-so-distant past, and to help their cause, they've had people like Teddy Sheringham and Paul Merson et al... All of whom were seen to have been past it or failed at the very top.
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jimbob
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i actually do agree so really no one outside the top four within the next ten years have a shot of breaking in to the top.if teams are hoping to then the players to sign for a long term plan are ashton(if he can get fit),agbonlahor,young,clichy,rooney,ronaldo,krkic etc these are the players will are the future.
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JAFFA
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There is no top 4 anymore guys....The gulf between United, Arsenal, Chelsea and.......... Liverpool will only become more and more aparant. I also happen to think that Arsenal, unless they spend some serious money, will slide a bit. Leaving a top two really.
Its actually turned into 3 mini leagues within one now.
Top 3.....Upper mid table and the relagation battle for the rest.
But if you look at what is happening to certain teams, like Villa, then there is hope that this domanince will be encroched upon or nibbled at.
They have one of the top 3 managers in the country, after Fergie and Wenger. A chairman who appears to have the club at heart and are signing good, young English players on reasonable length contracts. As long as the chairman stays motivated, the manager can see the chairman is behind the team/club and him and the team keep buying wisely, then they will break into the top tiers of football.
Spurs are 3 signings and two seasons away from doing the same I feel.
Yes money does bring the rewards, but you have to ask yourselfs, what the rewards REALLY are?
Lets be frank now. To United and Chelsea, anything less than a premiership title or the champions leauge is a faligure!
An FA cup will keep the fans happy, but not the owners.....If we are honest.
Whereas, a leauge cup or FA cup win will be a real big milestone for "most" of the rest.
Another way to judge success is to look at the likes of Wigan and Reading. 10 years ago they had poor grounds, battleing it out in lower divisions, struggling to meat wage demands, scrimping and scraping. Now both sides have good grounds, bright young managers, some half decent players and although they still battle for suvival, there overall prospects are a million times better than there pervious situations.
Sucsess can often be measured in many ways.
kind regards Jeff
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jimbob
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jaffa with arsenal sitution i dont think you could be anymore wrong.eboue,toure,clichy,sagna,flamini,hleb,fabregas,walcott,rosicky,bendtner,van persie,adebayor,eduardo TO NAME A FEW.they have all got there careers ahead of them not one has reached there peak and until there lack of expereince kicked in have been the best team in the league and leading it.there all learning every game and in a couple of years with even more addictions to the squad will be unbeatable.
if anyone will slip it will be chelsea because abramovich will get fed up of the money he puts in and no return.
also dave moyes for everton he is a far better manager than martin o'neill.and also i think your forgetting thje mastermind which is rafael benitez.
your spot on with reading and wigan though mate.they have achieved so much.
just my opinion though
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Steve Howard
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| jimbob wrote: |
if anyone will slip it will be chelsea because abramovich will get fed up of the money he puts in and no return.
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'no return'??
How do you work that out jimbob? 6 trophies in the past 3 years and possibly more to come this term, despite losing a manager.
We've all heard about the arsenal babes, and yes, there is some good talent there, but they have proven nothing at all yet, and they're not getting younger. They lack bottle sometimes, and all the flair in the world won't save them if they don't have that winners metal.
Let's not forget too, that they are not as 'young' as they are portrayed to be by all the waffle, and should be capable of showing their steel, now.
Let's face it, most of the Arsenal players are already in their footballing prime... 'babes' indeed!
Francesc Fabregas 22
Vassiriki Diaby 22
Bacary Sagna 25
Kolo Toure 27
Philippe Senderos 23
Tomas Rosicky 28
Da Silva Eduardo 25
William Gallas 31
Robin Van Persie 25
Alexander Hleb 28
Neves Denilson 20
Mathieu Flamini 24
Gilberto Silva 28
Gael Clichy 23
Manuel Almunia 30
Emmanuel Adebayor 24
Nicklas Bendtner 20
Emmanuel Eboue 25
Armand Traore 20
Justin Hoyte 24
Theo Walcott 19
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Steve Howard
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"also i think your forgetting thje mastermind which is rafael benitez. "
Im missed that one last time jimbob, very funny m8
We are talking 'top 3' here m8... thats 'league' not cup comps
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jimbob
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carling cups dont really count.yeah the league and won fa cup are good.but for how much he has spent he hasnt won the cup he really wants.the champions league!
sorry i respect your opinion but i totally disagree about it with arsenal.
clichy 23
toure 27
sagna 25
gallas 31
hleb 28
eboue 25
fabregas 22
flamini 24
adebayor 24
eduardo 25
this is the team up intil end of january were top of the league by six points and still in all competions.one palyer past the peak and one player in there peak.this is there first team.mark my words they got more to come
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Steve Howard
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25 is considered to be 'prime' jimbob, and it lasts for around 3-years, so I'd suggest that all but a couple are either in or past their prime.
The point is, if they can't make significant haedway next season, some will be on their way... watch this space 
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JAFFA
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| Steve Howard wrote: | 25 is considered to be 'prime' jimbob, and it lasts for around 3-years, so I'd suggest that all but a couple are either in or past their prime.
The point is, if they can't make significant haedway next season, some will be on their way... watch this space |
Agreed, they just cant seem to cut it. It is really a two horsed leauge, with Arsenal and Liverpool fleating in and out "if" they can get there game together.
Most English footie fans of premier sides would say they would like there teams to win in this order if they could.
1/ Leauge.
2/ Champs Leauge/UEFA Cup.
3/ FA cup
4/ Leauge.
Ask any Liverpool fan at the begining of any season, what they want there team to win and most would tell you its the leauge.
Benitez "maybe" a bit more astute than we give him credit for. Faced with a team that clearly cannot compete in 4 competitions and one that cannot compete for 38 games, he may well have set his sights on the champ leauge as a realistic target to win and one he felt the team could acheive. 
kind regards Jeff
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PeteB
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Do you mean League Jeff???
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Steve Howard
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Wednesday, 23 April 2008
Barcelona v Man Utd, SF, L1, 19:45
Liverpool v Chelsea, SF, L1, 19:45
...................................................................................................
Saturday, 26 April 2008
Barclays Premier League
Chelsea v Man Utd, 12:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 30 April 2008
Chelsea v Liverpool, SF, L2, 19:45
Man Utd v Barcelona, SF, L2, 19:45
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jimbob
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no i think prime is 27-29.even if your saying that about arsenal the best and most promising 4 aout the bunch havent even reached that yet(adebayor,fabregas,flamini,clichy).
as for liverpool a mate of mine says if they finish within ten points of the leaders then its a huge improvement.there getting better and better.skrtel and agger with carragher defence is brilliant.torres is a legend and gerrard is a briiliant all round player and my hero.
liverpool start great then have a bad mid season run and then finish strongly.
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Steve Howard
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Well, Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
It's a tight one yet again, but THIS time the 2nd leg is at the Bridge 
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Little-Mo
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Not really into football, No! i'm not gay.
But having a game of football on a bridge does seem to be abit of a silly thing to do.
I'll get me coat
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chris b
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nice of Liverpool to lend you a striker Steve without there sub i reckon the score would have been 1-0
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Steve Howard
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| chris b wrote: | | nice of Liverpool to lend you a striker Steve without there sub i reckon the score would have been 1-0 |
A true classic of a cross Chris... He knew he had to get something on it or it was a dead cert tap-in... it was a well deserved goal imo... and I hope it hurt them like hell, too!
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Steve Howard
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| Little-Mo wrote: | Not really into football, No! i'm not gay.
But having a game of football on a bridge does seem to be abit of a silly thing to do.
I'll get me coat |
lol Mauriiiice... How do you think we've established such an impressive home record m8?
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